Battle Report 91: Krueger 2 vs. Rhyas 1 (SR 2017 and Battle Engine CID)


Oh boy oh boy oh boy!!

I was one of those mad nutcases who went out and bought a second fulcrum (this means that I owned one to begin with) mere minutes after the insider spoiling the battle engine CID was released.

I do not regret it.

A quick summary of the new rules for those who have yet to see or are not part of the CID forums:

Increased boxes to 30.
Gained the ability to leach Fury from construct beasts within 5 inches during control phase.
Gained Fury Vault
Gained Veteren Leader [Blackclad] - other Blackclad models in its command range get +1 to hit on every kind of attack roll.

Suffice to say, this is awesome.

Since Pagani has expressly asked that the battle engines be tested on SR 2017, my opponent and I rolled up The Pit II and used the Cluster terrain method. Again, anything for CID is going to be in a different font.

Krueger 2
- Loki
- Megalith
- Woldwyrd
- Woldwyrd

Celestial Fulcrum
Stoneshaper (proxied by a Blackclad so I didn't have to go rooting through my models)
Gobber Chef (proxied by a Mannikin, same reason)

Shifting Stones x2
Druids and CA


- Proteus
- Scythean
- Neraph
- Seraph

Shepherd x2
Nyss Warlord (proxied by a Legionnaire)

Swordsmen and CA

I won the roll off and opted to go second. This seems like the only way to win SR 2017 on Scenario, and that is 100% what my list is about.

Legion turn 1:

Pretty simple. Occultation goes up on the Hellmouth and everything runs up. 

Hellmouth Tentacles move to max command range in the left zone, and I give up any hope of scoring in it. 

He moves his beasts up cautiously, probably to screen them next turn with the Swordsmen.

Circle turn 1:

I jokingly inform my opponent that if I wanted to, I could have my Fulcrum about 3 inches away from his Seraph this turn (Run 10 into stones, port 8, TK 2 more). 

I start off with Apparition on my Druids. 

I then premeasure a cloud base to base with the forest, check to see if Druid #1 can walk into it from where he is, and do so. I measure 1.5 inches from the edge of the cloud I have pre-measured, and then check to see if Druid #2 can advance at least that far. He can, so I move him up until he is 1.5 inches away from the first cloud. 

I pick up the 3 inch ring, move it over the second Druid, and repeat the process two more times. 

It takes me probably two full minutes to make a 4 man cloud wall with these restrictions as opposed to the 15 seconds it would have taken before - plop down 4 AOE 3s, check to make sure a Druid can walk to the middle of each one, and then move the models. 

Krueger activates, TKs Megalith up and casts Windstorm before advancing to just behind the cloud wall. 

Megalith TKs Loki and Tramples, Loki runs to just outside of getting charged. 

The Fulcrum runs up, followed by Shifting Stones and a Stoneshaper. 

The other unit of Stones forms a triangle around Megalith and Loki, meanwhile both Wyrds rile and run. 

Legion turn 2:

My opponent decides to jam me up with Swordsmen this turn, running them up at me as far as he can with the forest in the way. 

Rhyas swaps Occultation onto herself and goes to just behind the left zone. 

Scythean goes to block LOS to her and be a scoring threat in the left zone, and the Seraph moves into the middle zone to contest. 

His Neraph chills out in the middle zone along with Proteus a bit farther back. 

His first Deathstalker is able to get range to the closest Druid, needing nines. He pops him off, Swift Hunters to the next one and hits him, also needing nines. Yayy. That's 10 sit ups I have to do >< 

He passes the turn. 

Circle turn 2:

I leach five fury with Krueger and 3 with the Fulcrum (ahhh that felt good). 

Apparition happens, and then I spend a solid 20 minutes deciding if I can go for an assassination run this turn. 

With only one proxy base, I can measure where Krueger can get to, and I verify that the Druids can get LOS to the Scythean to hit it with a KD spell and knock Rhyas over. 

What I CAN'T do is check to see if Telekinesis will get the Scythean out of the way enough to Gallows Rhyas, check to see where Loki can land with Shifting Stones and where Rhyas would have to be in order for him to be inside Stealth range to hook her, and see if that is within walking and shooting distance for a Woldwyrd. 

I spend 20 minutes going over the distances again and again, and my opponent and I cannot verify anything. I've got the one proxy base out, my fingers marking various arbitrary points that I *think* are where distances would end up at, and in the end, I decide I just cannot try it. 

This is a great example of where not being able to premeasure gets rid of any risky plays - if I could premeasure all the bases out, I would probably have gone for this. Instead, I wasted 20 minutes of sitting and staring at a table muttering to myself about possible eyeballed distances. If I could have set down 4 proxy bases, I could have laid it all out with my opponent and verified distances in a matter of a minute or two, and we both could have been spared the experience. 20 minutes of sitting there staring at me was much worse than the five minutes it would have taken for both of us to Interact and Discuss the distances involved before coming to an agreement. 

Instead, the Fulcrum aims and kills 8 Swordsmen and a Shepherd. (Insert Evil Laughter)

Druids move up and KD Rhyas and the Scythean anyway, and Loki toes the edge of the Shifting Stone triangle he is in to hook the Neraph over. 

He leaves it on a few, the stones port him into the right zone, and Megalith moves over to finish the beast off. 

Krueger moves up, TKs a Wyrd up, FEATS and clears the zone of everything but the Swordsmen CA. He puts up Windstorm once I verify that every single thing my opponent has cannot get to me. 

The Wyrd moves up and blasts both Swordsmen down, the other scoots over and kills the last Swordsman. 

I score two points, and thanks to a contesting Druid, my opponent scores none. 

Score 2-0
Advantage Circle

Legion turn 3:

Everything except one Deathstalker, the Warlord, and a Shepherd has -2 Speed this turn. 

My opponent kills off all but the Druid CA with Deathstalkers and a Seraph, clearing his zone. 

The Scythean dances around outside my threat ranges, but contests the middle zone. Proteus half kills my Wyrd. 

We both score. 

Score 3-1
Advantage Circle

Circle turn 3:

The Fulcrum pulls Fury from Megalith, Krueger from Loki. 

I take a free strike with my Wyrd, which kills it. 

The Fulcrum gets teleported over Loki by the Shifting Stones and then softens Proteus up, doing about 15 damage to him. 

Loki moves up, hooks him, and kills him.

Megalith tramples up and TKs the Seraph out of the zone. The Druid Overseer pushes the Scythean out of the zone, and I contest with Shifting Stones. 

I roll a little hot and destroy his Objective with the Woldwyrd, and Kreuger dumps fury and RUNS AWAY.

From here I feel the math gets pretty basic - My opponent will trade his Scythean for Megalith, and then Loki, Fulcrum, and Krueger will clear the middle zone repeatedly to let me win on Scenario. I score 3 this turn.

Score 6-1
Advantage Circle

Legion turn 4:

Sure enough, the Scythean charges in and kills Megalith. 

The Seraph shoots down the Gobber Chef and the Druid, and the Hellmouth Tentacles kill the contesting stone. 

We both score again. 

Score 7-2 
Advantage Circle

Circle turn 4:

Krueger "allocates" Fury to the Fulcrum, which half kills the Scythean. Loki hooks him and kills him, but I cannot clear the Seraph. 

I do contest once more and score again. 

Upon further reflection, I think we miscounted the score, and I should have won this turn. 

Score 8-2
Advantage Circle

Legion turn 5:

My opponent clears his zone again, and we both score. 

Score 9-3
Advantage Circle

Circle turn 5:

A quick TK on Loki allows him to run and contest both zones, scoring me another point and putting me up by seven? I think so. Oh well, I officially won on this turn. 

Score 10-3
Victory for the Druids!

Post-Game Thoughts:

Scenario: This felt a lot more like a real Scenario, far more than Spread the Net did. The game was much more urgent feeling than the previous one, and I felt like it mattered. 

That being said, I only won once I had destroyed almost everything my opponent had on the table, and the game went for nearly the full two hours on the clock. I think that, in the interest of keeping event lengths reasonable, winning at 5 more than your opponent and ending on turn six might be more appropriate.

Measurement Rules: I cannot express my annoyance with this enough. I spent probably half of my game time staring at the table and muttering to myself about threat ranges and Stealth and placement, NONE of which I could verify with my opponent. Instead of plopping three or four measurement bases on the table and quickly checking ranges and placement with my opponent, I spent 20 minutes completely in my own head and not interacting with my opponent at all. I believe he took a phone call, got some food, and read some random stuff on Facebook while I was doing this, and it literally did not matter. 

Also, the Druid wall was incredibly frustrating as I was still able to DO what I wanted to do, it just took 5 times longer than it should. 

If there must be a limit on measurement markers, I HIGHLY recommend moving it up to a range of 3-5 at once, else it slows the game down and makes it less interesting for both players. I haven't gone into the tank like that since Mark II, and I did not miss the feeling. 

Celestial Fulcrum:

This thing feels amazing now. Just being able to consistently boost damage is strong, but being able to load up Megalith EVERY turn and then pull fury off of him without worrying about Kreuger was incredible. 

At the same time, I also felt extremely vulnerable as it still dies to a charging heavy, which I think is a good place for it to be. I think Privateer Press might have nailed this one on the head in one go, I wouldn't change anything about it. 

Battle Report 89: Kreoss 3 vs. Feora 3 (SR 2017 CID)


I've been a pretty outspoken critic of the new SR 2017 packet, specifically the pre-measuring changes. The experiences I have been reading about on the CID forums for battle reports have contributed to this negative outlook, as I repeatedly see reports where the Scenario literally did not matter more than forcing engagement to happen.

I figured I had better put my money where my mouth was and get some games in with the new rules, I will indicate CID feedback with different font.

Pre-Game Thoughts:

The terrain set up we used was the Cluster Method:

1. Place a line-of-sight blocking terrain piece touching the center point of the table. 

2. Place a terrain piece within 6˝ of the center of the table and of the first terrain piece placed. 

3. Place a terrain piece within 6˝ of both the first and second terrain pieces. 

4. Repeat step 3 until there are five terrain pieces on the table. 

5. Place all remaining terrain pieces within 6˝ of each other but not within 8˝ of any terrain piece placed in steps 1–4.

This resulted in a table pretty much exactly like the tables I have been setting up since the beginning of Mark III, and it was very nice to see that reflected in the SR packet - I believe this is a step in the right direction as far as terrain is concerned. 

Anyway, I just came off three weeks of playing the exact same Circle lists, and before the battle engine CID hits in two days, I thought I would dust off some Menoth for a change of pace. 

Kreoss 3
- Heirophant
- Reckoner
- Redeemer x2


Choir of Menoth (min)


Feora 3
- Heirophant
- Hand of Judgment
- Reckoner
- Vanquisher
- Crusader


Zealots and CA

We rolled the Scenario "Spread the Net" which has a central Circular Zone which can only be controlled by Warrior Models or Warcasters/Warlocks, two side Rectangle Zones which only Jacks, Beasts, and Warcaster/Locks can control, and two flags which are only for Warcasters/Locks.

I won the roll off and slammed going second since it seems like the only way to score points.

My opponent skewed heavily right, and I spread my models out like the Riders of Rohan about to charge into Minas Tirith, but with my Battlegroup opposite Feora since I was pretty sure this game would come down to assassination.

CID Note - only having six Scenarios to roll on was convenient, I did not have to go rooting around for my d8 or my Roll for Scenario app. 

Bad Menoth turn 1:

Everything ran up. Feora cast Banishing Ward on the Cavalry and the Zealots sang for no spells. 

Good Menoth turn 1:

I have literally no reason to go anywhere near him yet, so I load up my Redeemers. 

Left side Cav dance outside of Flamebringer threat ranges, but the Vengers are within charge range of a couple thanks to their extra half inch threat range. 

My Redeemers move up and scatter horribly, only killing one Zealot. The Reckoner cranks his hit roll on the Daughter, but fails to kill her. 

On the right, Kreoss and friends move up to threaten his flag and dissuade him from coming into my zone with...well anything. 

Man I need to paint this list up. It's so pretty on the table.
Bad Menoth turn 2:

He shoots down a single Venger on the right with the Vanquisher after his Reckoner misses his shot (Choir sang Battle). 

Zealots flood into the zone, and Daughter Cav stay where they are. 

Still no reason to commit to anything here for him since even if I score in two zones next turn (practically impossible) he is under no scenario pressure at all. 

Good Menoth turn 2:

Well he triggered Battle Driven and I can charge two Jacks this turn so....

Kreoss loads up the Redeemers with a focus each and the Choir sing Battle.

Reckoner plugs the Vanquisher for a few, and then the Redeemers make up for the previous turn by dropping the hapless Jack to 1 box.

Kreoss gets Harmonious from the Heirophant, pulls a Focus from the Wrack (which blows up) and puts Ignite on the Vengers before backing up.

The Vengers roll in and murder the Reckoner with three of them. Should have put the fourth into the Vanquisher, ah well.

I get two Venger charges on Daughter Cav on the left, connect with one, and Reposition around after the two in the zone kill five Zealots.

Daughter Cav run to gum up the works.

I score 1 whole point thanks to a Redeemer in my zone.

Score 2-0
Advantage Menoth

Bad Menoth turn 3:

He drops Redline from the Vanquisher, and Feora casts Fire Step to get into the forest before Feating and Assaulting a Venger. She kills two and Repositions back.

Hand kills the Venger in front of the Vanquisher, and the Vanquisher connects but does not kill the last Venger.

On the left, all but one Daughter Cav die to either Zealots or Daughter Cav, and the Crusader charges and kills two more Vengers.

I get another point.

Score 2-0
Advantage Menoth

Good Menoth turn 3:

Feora exposed herself, so time to go.

I run the last Venger over to get right behind Feora but not engage her.

Kreoss gets Harmonious, moves up, and Force Hammers her down. He Feats, putting Arcane Ward on himself, Assail on his Reckoner, and Silence of Death on Feora.

Reckoner and Redeemers blast the knocked down Warcaster to death, as they do.

Victory for the Good Menoth!

Post-Game Thoughts:

This list is goofy fun. It's fast, hits like a truck, and looks really cool. 

Onto my CID stuff. 

This Scenario is almost as dead as Linebreaker, but also forces you to come and brawl in the center of the table. You are almost never going to be able to win this on Scenario without first killing off literally 2/3 of your opponents army and/or without getting one or two points up and riding out until turn 7. 

Scenarios this dead are not interesting, engaging, or fun. I would be much, much more interested if it was first person to six wins, but as it was my opponent felt absolutely no pressure despite being down two nil after round two. 

The pre-measurement rules did not come into play simply because I abandoned any real pretense of going for interesting or tricky plays and played it like I would have in Mark 2 with added threat range assessment. Lists like the one I played in this battle report can handle that, lists that are more placement oriented will be in trouble and the rule still feels like it discourages interesting game play and good flow than it creates.